[AFMUG] Bigger batteries for Smart UPS

[Josh Luthman]

I'm getting a bigger unit - SmartUPS XL 2200 - and I'm looking at
batteries. I have an Interstate Batteries and Batteries Plus near me so
I'd like to go with either of them.

This will be indoors. I'm aiming to get 280 watt hours (70 watts, 4 hours)
of run time. Is there any idea as to the inefficiency of the whole
AC/DC/AC/DC process?

What type of battery would be best? Should I look for 12/24/48v batteries
or does it matter (besides having to connect them in series)?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

[Josh Luthman]

Charger but also just an APC with the management. So far I've got two
solutions: DC and APC. I'd rather avoid another model or method to monitor.

Should I just load up on some decent size wet cell and wire them up?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 20, 2015 3:32 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com> wrote:

> I don’t have specific numbers for you, but I have observed that family
> gets pretty inefficient if you run it way below rated capacity. You seem
> to hit a wall as you drop the load, like 200 watts for 4 hours, 100 watts
> for 4 hours, 50 watts for 4 hours, no watts for 4 hours. Especially if you
> are trying to push the runtime out to days.
>
> Any reason you are using a 2200 VA unit for only 70W? Instead of, say, a
> 700 VA unit? Wanting the faster charger?
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:14 PM
> *To:* ***@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Bigger batteries for Smart UPS
>
> I'm getting a bigger unit - SmartUPS XL 2200 - and I'm looking at
> batteries. I have an Interstate Batteries and Batteries Plus near me so
> I'd like to go with either of them.
>
> This will be indoors. I'm aiming to get 280 watt hours (70 watts, 4
> hours) of run time. Is there any idea as to the inefficiency of the whole
> AC/DC/AC/DC process?
>
> What type of battery would be best? Should I look for 12/24/48v batteries
> or does it matter (besides having to connect them in series)?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>

[Gino Villarini]

The 2200 is 48vdc iirc, for a 289 watt load It will be inefficient... Better off with a 750xl

Gino A. Villarini
@gvillarini



On Jan 20, 2015, at 5:17 PM, Ken Hohhof <***@kwisp.com<mailto:***@kwisp.com>> wrote:

APC charger is calibrated for AGM, doesn’t flooded require different voltages? Maybe I’m wrong about that. Certainly take out the internal AGM batteries, you don’t want batteries of different chemistry in parallel. I’ve only done it with external AGM, but as far as how you get to the right voltage (I forget if 2200 VA is still 24V or that’s the point where they started using 48V), I don’t think it matters if you put 2 x 12V or 4 x 6V in series to get 24V. I’m not sure you’ll find 24 or 48V batteries, the choices are usually 2, 6 or 12 volt. Make sure to put a fuse in each series string of batteries.

From: Josh Luthman<mailto:***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:50 PM
To: ***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Bigger batteries for Smart UPS


Charger but also just an APC with the management. So far I've got two solutions: DC and APC. I'd rather avoid another model or method to monitor.

Should I just load up on some decent size wet cell and wire them up?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Jan 20, 2015 3:32 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com<mailto:***@kwisp.com>> wrote:
I don’t have specific numbers for you, but I have observed that family gets pretty inefficient if you run it way below rated capacity. You seem to hit a wall as you drop the load, like 200 watts for 4 hours, 100 watts for 4 hours, 50 watts for 4 hours, no watts for 4 hours. Especially if you are trying to push the runtime out to days.

Any reason you are using a 2200 VA unit for only 70W? Instead of, say, a 700 VA unit? Wanting the faster charger?


From: Josh Luthman<mailto:***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:14 PM
To: ***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>
Subject: [AFMUG] Bigger batteries for Smart UPS

I'm getting a bigger unit - SmartUPS XL 2200 - and I'm looking at batteries. I have an Interstate Batteries and Batteries Plus near me so I'd like to go with either of them.

This will be indoors. I'm aiming to get 280 watt hours (70 watts, 4 hours) of run time. Is there any idea as to the inefficiency of the whole AC/DC/AC/DC process?

What type of battery would be best? Should I look for 12/24/48v batteries or does it matter (besides having to connect them in series)?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340<tel:[phone]>
Direct: 937-552-2343<tel:[phone]>
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

[Josh Luthman]

70 watt load. I'd like to get 4 hours. 280 watt hours.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 20, 2015 4:25 PM, "Gino Villarini" <***@aeronetpr.com> wrote:

> The 2200 is 48vdc iirc, for a 289 watt load It will be inefficient...
> Better off with a 750xl
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> @gvillarini
>
>
>
> On Jan 20, 2015, at 5:17 PM, Ken Hohhof <***@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> APC charger is calibrated for AGM, doesn’t flooded require different
> voltages? Maybe I’m wrong about that. Certainly take out the internal AGM
> batteries, you don’t want batteries of different chemistry in parallel.
> I’ve only done it with external AGM, but as far as how you get to the right
> voltage (I forget if 2200 VA is still 24V or that’s the point where they
> started using 48V), I don’t think it matters if you put 2 x 12V or 4 x 6V
> in series to get 24V. I’m not sure you’ll find 24 or 48V batteries, the
> choices are usually 2, 6 or 12 volt. Make sure to put a fuse in each
> series string of batteries.
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:50 PM
> *To:* ***@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Bigger batteries for Smart UPS
>
>
> Charger but also just an APC with the management. So far I've got two
> solutions: DC and APC. I'd rather avoid another model or method to monitor.
>
> Should I just load up on some decent size wet cell and wire them up?
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Jan 20, 2015 3:32 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
>> I don’t have specific numbers for you, but I have observed that family
>> gets pretty inefficient if you run it way below rated capacity. You seem
>> to hit a wall as you drop the load, like 200 watts for 4 hours, 100 watts
>> for 4 hours, 50 watts for 4 hours, no watts for 4 hours. Especially if you
>> are trying to push the runtime out to days.
>>
>> Any reason you are using a 2200 VA unit for only 70W? Instead of, say, a
>> 700 VA unit? Wanting the faster charger?
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:14 PM
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Bigger batteries for Smart UPS
>>
>> I'm getting a bigger unit - SmartUPS XL 2200 - and I'm looking at
>> batteries. I have an Interstate Batteries and Batteries Plus near me so
>> I'd like to go with either of them.
>>
>> This will be indoors. I'm aiming to get 280 watt hours (70 watts, 4
>> hours) of run time. Is there any idea as to the inefficiency of the whole
>> AC/DC/AC/DC process?
>>
>> What type of battery would be best? Should I look for 12/24/48v
>> batteries or does it matter (besides having to connect them in series)?
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>

[Jeremy]

We use a 3000XL at our NOC with 4 100Ah 12v AGM in series. We are pulling
about 1100 watts (37%). We had a 6 hour outage and it made it through
fine. The runtime claims that we have 7.6 hours. I would just use a 700XL
if all you are using is 70w.

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Ken Hohhof <***@kwisp.com> wrote:

> It looks from the APC runtime graph that you should get 4 hours or
> close with the internal battery:
> http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SU2200XL
>
> You should be able to estimate runtime with different batteries from the
> information on that page or linked from there.
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 20, 2015 3:30 PM
> *To:* ***@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Bigger batteries for Smart UPS
>
>
> 70 watt load. I'd like to get 4 hours. 280 watt hours.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Jan 20, 2015 4:25 PM, "Gino Villarini" <***@aeronetpr.com> wrote:
>
>> The 2200 is 48vdc iirc, for a 289 watt load It will be inefficient...
>> Better off with a 750xl
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> @gvillarini
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 20, 2015, at 5:17 PM, Ken Hohhof <***@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>
>> APC charger is calibrated for AGM, doesn’t flooded require different
>> voltages? Maybe I’m wrong about that. Certainly take out the internal AGM
>> batteries, you don’t want batteries of different chemistry in parallel.
>> I’ve only done it with external AGM, but as far as how you get to the right
>> voltage (I forget if 2200 VA is still 24V or that’s the point where they
>> started using 48V), I don’t think it matters if you put 2 x 12V or 4 x 6V
>> in series to get 24V. I’m not sure you’ll find 24 or 48V batteries, the
>> choices are usually 2, 6 or 12 volt. Make sure to put a fuse in each
>> series string of batteries.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:50 PM
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Bigger batteries for Smart UPS
>>
>>
>> Charger but also just an APC with the management. So far I've got two
>> solutions: DC and APC. I'd rather avoid another model or method to monitor.
>>
>> Should I just load up on some decent size wet cell and wire them up?
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Jan 20, 2015 3:32 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I don’t have specific numbers for you, but I have observed that
>>> family gets pretty inefficient if you run it way below rated capacity. You
>>> seem to hit a wall as you drop the load, like 200 watts for 4 hours, 100
>>> watts for 4 hours, 50 watts for 4 hours, no watts for 4 hours. Especially
>>> if you are trying to push the runtime out to days.
>>>
>>> Any reason you are using a 2200 VA unit for only 70W? Instead of, say,
>>> a 700 VA unit? Wanting the faster charger?
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:14 PM
>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Bigger batteries for Smart UPS
>>>
>>> I'm getting a bigger unit - SmartUPS XL 2200 - and I'm looking at
>>> batteries. I have an Interstate Batteries and Batteries Plus near me so
>>> I'd like to go with either of them.
>>>
>>> This will be indoors. I'm aiming to get 280 watt hours (70 watts, 4
>>> hours) of run time. Is there any idea as to the inefficiency of the whole
>>> AC/DC/AC/DC process?
>>>
>>> What type of battery would be best? Should I look for 12/24/48v
>>> batteries or does it matter (besides having to connect them in series)?
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>

[Josh Luthman]

I thought the same thing from my math but I think the old as hell UPS must
be very inefficient.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 20, 2015 4:41 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com> wrote:

> It looks from the APC runtime graph that you should get 4 hours or
> close with the internal battery:
> http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SU2200XL
>
> You should be able to estimate runtime with different batteries from the
> information on that page or linked from there.
>
>
> *From:* Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 20, 2015 3:30 PM
> *To:* ***@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Bigger batteries for Smart UPS
>
>
> 70 watt load. I'd like to get 4 hours. 280 watt hours.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Jan 20, 2015 4:25 PM, "Gino Villarini" <***@aeronetpr.com> wrote:
>
>> The 2200 is 48vdc iirc, for a 289 watt load It will be inefficient...
>> Better off with a 750xl
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> @gvillarini
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 20, 2015, at 5:17 PM, Ken Hohhof <***@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>
>> APC charger is calibrated for AGM, doesn’t flooded require different
>> voltages? Maybe I’m wrong about that. Certainly take out the internal AGM
>> batteries, you don’t want batteries of different chemistry in parallel.
>> I’ve only done it with external AGM, but as far as how you get to the right
>> voltage (I forget if 2200 VA is still 24V or that’s the point where they
>> started using 48V), I don’t think it matters if you put 2 x 12V or 4 x 6V
>> in series to get 24V. I’m not sure you’ll find 24 or 48V batteries, the
>> choices are usually 2, 6 or 12 volt. Make sure to put a fuse in each
>> series string of batteries.
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:50 PM
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Bigger batteries for Smart UPS
>>
>>
>> Charger but also just an APC with the management. So far I've got two
>> solutions: DC and APC. I'd rather avoid another model or method to monitor.
>>
>> Should I just load up on some decent size wet cell and wire them up?
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Jan 20, 2015 3:32 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I don’t have specific numbers for you, but I have observed that
>>> family gets pretty inefficient if you run it way below rated capacity. You
>>> seem to hit a wall as you drop the load, like 200 watts for 4 hours, 100
>>> watts for 4 hours, 50 watts for 4 hours, no watts for 4 hours. Especially
>>> if you are trying to push the runtime out to days.
>>>
>>> Any reason you are using a 2200 VA unit for only 70W? Instead of, say,
>>> a 700 VA unit? Wanting the faster charger?
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:14 PM
>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Bigger batteries for Smart UPS
>>>
>>> I'm getting a bigger unit - SmartUPS XL 2200 - and I'm looking at
>>> batteries. I have an Interstate Batteries and Batteries Plus near me so
>>> I'd like to go with either of them.
>>>
>>> This will be indoors. I'm aiming to get 280 watt hours (70 watts, 4
>>> hours) of run time. Is there any idea as to the inefficiency of the whole
>>> AC/DC/AC/DC process?
>>>
>>> What type of battery would be best? Should I look for 12/24/48v
>>> batteries or does it matter (besides having to connect them in series)?
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>

[David Milholen]

Does all of the gear run on or have the feature of running on DC?
If so just do a more direct approach with DC supply/charger to fail over
in the event of ac failure.

On 1/20/2015 4:04 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> I thought the same thing from my math but I think the old as hell UPS
> must be very inefficient.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Jan 20, 2015 4:41 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com
> <mailto:***@kwisp.com>> wrote:
>
> It looks from the APC runtime graph that you should get 4 hours or
> close with the internal battery:
> http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SU2200XL
> You should be able to estimate runtime with different batteries
> from the information on that page or linked from there.
> *From:* Josh Luthman <mailto:***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 20, 2015 3:30 PM
> *To:* ***@afmug.com <mailto:***@afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Bigger batteries for Smart UPS
>
> 70 watt load. I'd like to get 4 hours. 280 watt hours.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:[phone]>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:[phone]>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Jan 20, 2015 4:25 PM, "Gino Villarini" <***@aeronetpr.com
> <mailto:***@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:
>
> The 2200 is 48vdc iirc, for a 289 watt load It will be
> inefficient... Better off with a 750xl
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> @gvillarini
>
> On Jan 20, 2015, at 5:17 PM, Ken Hohhof <***@kwisp.com
> <mailto:***@kwisp.com>> wrote:
>
>> APC charger is calibrated for AGM, doesn’t flooded require
>> different voltages? Maybe I’m wrong about that. Certainly
>> take out the internal AGM batteries, you don’t want batteries
>> of different chemistry in parallel. I’ve only done it with
>> external AGM, but as far as how you get to the right voltage
>> (I forget if 2200 VA is still 24V or that’s the point where
>> they started using 48V), I don’t think it matters if you put
>> 2 x 12V or 4 x 6V in series to get 24V. I’m not sure you’ll
>> find 24 or 48V batteries, the choices are usually 2, 6 or 12
>> volt. Make sure to put a fuse in each series string of
>> batteries.
>> *From:* Josh Luthman <mailto:***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:50 PM
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com <mailto:***@afmug.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Bigger batteries for Smart UPS
>>
>> Charger but also just an APC with the management. So far
>> I've got two solutions: DC and APC. I'd rather avoid another
>> model or method to monitor.
>>
>> Should I just load up on some decent size wet cell and wire
>> them up?
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:[phone]>
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:[phone]>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Jan 20, 2015 3:32 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com
>> <mailto:***@kwisp.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I don’t have specific numbers for you, but I have
>> observed that family gets pretty inefficient if you run
>> it way below rated capacity. You seem to hit a wall as
>> you drop the load, like 200 watts for 4 hours, 100 watts
>> for 4 hours, 50 watts for 4 hours, no watts for 4 hours.
>> Especially if you are trying to push the runtime out to days.
>> Any reason you are using a 2200 VA unit for only 70W?
>> Instead of, say, a 700 VA unit? Wanting the faster charger?
>> *From:* Josh Luthman <mailto:***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:14 PM
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com <mailto:***@afmug.com>
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Bigger batteries for Smart UPS
>> I'm getting a bigger unit - SmartUPS XL 2200 - and I'm
>> looking at batteries. I have an Interstate Batteries and
>> Batteries Plus near me so I'd like to go with either of
>> them.
>> This will be indoors. I'm aiming to get 280 watt hours
>> (70 watts, 4 hours) of run time. Is there any idea as to
>> the inefficiency of the whole AC/DC/AC/DC process?
>>
>> What type of battery would be best? Should I look for
>> 12/24/48v batteries or does it matter (besides having to
>> connect them in series)?
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:[phone]>
>> Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:[phone]>
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>

--

[Josh Luthman]

Thought about doing all DC but it's a bit much at this point when I can
just replace one APC for another. I'm sure I'll need other voltages and
things for other products for tests (this site is on the roof of the
office).

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 20, 2015 6:45 PM, "David Milholen" <***@wletc.com> wrote:

> Does all of the gear run on or have the feature of running on DC?
> If so just do a more direct approach with DC supply/charger to fail over
> in the event of ac failure.
>
> On 1/20/2015 4:04 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
> I thought the same thing from my math but I think the old as hell UPS must
> be very inefficient.
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
> On Jan 20, 2015 4:41 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
>> It looks from the APC runtime graph that you should get 4 hours or
>> close with the internal battery:
>> http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=SU2200XL
>>
>> You should be able to estimate runtime with different batteries from the
>> information on that page or linked from there.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 20, 2015 3:30 PM
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Bigger batteries for Smart UPS
>>
>>
>> 70 watt load. I'd like to get 4 hours. 280 watt hours.
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>> On Jan 20, 2015 4:25 PM, "Gino Villarini" <***@aeronetpr.com> wrote:
>>
>>> The 2200 is 48vdc iirc, for a 289 watt load It will be inefficient...
>>> Better off with a 750xl
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>> @gvillarini
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 20, 2015, at 5:17 PM, Ken Hohhof <***@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> APC charger is calibrated for AGM, doesn’t flooded require different
>>> voltages? Maybe I’m wrong about that. Certainly take out the internal AGM
>>> batteries, you don’t want batteries of different chemistry in parallel.
>>> I’ve only done it with external AGM, but as far as how you get to the right
>>> voltage (I forget if 2200 VA is still 24V or that’s the point where they
>>> started using 48V), I don’t think it matters if you put 2 x 12V or 4 x 6V
>>> in series to get 24V. I’m not sure you’ll find 24 or 48V batteries, the
>>> choices are usually 2, 6 or 12 volt. Make sure to put a fuse in each
>>> series string of batteries.
>>>
>>> *From:* Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:50 PM
>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Bigger batteries for Smart UPS
>>>
>>>
>>> Charger but also just an APC with the management. So far I've got two
>>> solutions: DC and APC. I'd rather avoid another model or method to monitor.
>>>
>>> Should I just load up on some decent size wet cell and wire them up?
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>> On Jan 20, 2015 3:32 PM, "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I don’t have specific numbers for you, but I have observed that
>>>> family gets pretty inefficient if you run it way below rated capacity. You
>>>> seem to hit a wall as you drop the load, like 200 watts for 4 hours, 100
>>>> watts for 4 hours, 50 watts for 4 hours, no watts for 4 hours. Especially
>>>> if you are trying to push the runtime out to days.
>>>>
>>>> Any reason you are using a 2200 VA unit for only 70W? Instead of, say,
>>>> a 700 VA unit? Wanting the faster charger?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 20, 2015 2:14 PM
>>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Bigger batteries for Smart UPS
>>>>
>>>> I'm getting a bigger unit - SmartUPS XL 2200 - and I'm looking at
>>>> batteries. I have an Interstate Batteries and Batteries Plus near me so
>>>> I'd like to go with either of them.
>>>>
>>>> This will be indoors. I'm aiming to get 280 watt hours (70 watts, 4
>>>> hours) of run time. Is there any idea as to the inefficiency of the whole
>>>> AC/DC/AC/DC process?
>>>>
>>>> What type of battery would be best? Should I look for 12/24/48v
>>>> batteries or does it matter (besides having to connect them in series)?
>>>>
>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>> Suite 1337
>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>
>>>
> --
>

[Bill Prince]

I generally figure about 10% loss for each conversion. Some inverters
and some power supplies will be better and/or worse.

So converting from DC to AC, you have roughly 90% of what you started
with. Going from AC to DC you'll end up with 80% of what you started with.

If you want 70 watts for 4 hours, or 280 watt hours, you will need ~~
560 watt hours of battery for a DC solution. That roughly equates to
700 watt hours for a UPS solution.

If you're using 12 volt batteries, your UPS could use anything over 60
AH per battery.

If you go with DC-only, you could get by with 47 AH per battery.

Your best battery choice is AGM. They can be discharged deeper than
most of the other types (gel, wet).

bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 1/20/2015 3:50 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
> This will be indoors. I'm aiming to get 280 watt hours (70 watts, 4
> hours) of run time. Is there any idea as to the inefficiency of the
> whole AC/DC/AC/DC process?

[Josh Luthman]

Excellent info. Thanks Bill!!


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 7:50 PM, Bill Prince <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> I generally figure about 10% loss for each conversion. Some inverters and
> some power supplies will be better and/or worse.
>
> So converting from DC to AC, you have roughly 90% of what you started
> with. Going from AC to DC you'll end up with 80% of what you started with.
>
> If you want 70 watts for 4 hours, or 280 watt hours, you will need ~~ 560
> watt hours of battery for a DC solution. That roughly equates to 700 watt
> hours for a UPS solution.
>
> If you're using 12 volt batteries, your UPS could use anything over 60 AH
> per battery.
>
> If you go with DC-only, you could get by with 47 AH per battery.
>
> Your best battery choice is AGM. They can be discharged deeper than most
> of the other types (gel, wet).
>
> bp
> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>
>
> On 1/20/2015 3:50 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>
>> This will be indoors. I'm aiming to get 280 watt hours (70 watts, 4
>> hours) of run time. Is there any idea as to the inefficiency of the whole
>> AC/DC/AC/DC process?
>>
>
>

[That One Guy]

they killed the nice form factor 750xl, it sucks its a tower now

On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 6:54 PM, Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
wrote:

> Excellent info. Thanks Bill!!
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 7:50 PM, Bill Prince <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I generally figure about 10% loss for each conversion. Some inverters
>> and some power supplies will be better and/or worse.
>>
>> So converting from DC to AC, you have roughly 90% of what you started
>> with. Going from AC to DC you'll end up with 80% of what you started with.
>>
>> If you want 70 watts for 4 hours, or 280 watt hours, you will need ~~ 560
>> watt hours of battery for a DC solution. That roughly equates to 700 watt
>> hours for a UPS solution.
>>
>> If you're using 12 volt batteries, your UPS could use anything over 60 AH
>> per battery.
>>
>> If you go with DC-only, you could get by with 47 AH per battery.
>>
>> Your best battery choice is AGM. They can be discharged deeper than most
>> of the other types (gel, wet).
>>
>> bp
>> <part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>
>>
>>
>> On 1/20/2015 3:50 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:
>>
>>> This will be indoors. I'm aiming to get 280 watt hours (70 watts, 4
>>> hours) of run time. Is there any idea as to the inefficiency of the whole
>>> AC/DC/AC/DC process?
>>>
>>
>>
>


--
All parts should go together without forcing. You must remember that the
parts you are reassembling were disassembled by you. Therefore, if you
can't get them together again, there must be a reason. By all means, do not
use a hammer. -- IBM maintenance manual, 1925