Discussion:
[AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
TJ Trout
2015-01-16 18:54:17 UTC
Permalink
So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most
economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides
2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying
another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options
that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
TJ Trout
2015-01-16 18:57:50 UTC
Permalink
I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz
radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:

> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most
> economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides
> 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying
> another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options
> that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>
Jon Langeler
2015-01-16 19:52:49 UTC
Permalink
6ghz will only be 60mhz wide. Two 11Ghz channels will be 80Mhz wide. intelpath charges under $200 to see if the possibility even exists.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 16, 2015, at 1:57 PM, TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>
> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>
>> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
Hardy, Tim
2015-01-16 19:54:19 UTC
Permalink
There are 80 MHz allocations at 11 GHz – so you can license a single 80 MHz channel pair.

From: Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Jon Langeler
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 2:53 PM
To: ***@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

6ghz will only be 60mhz wide. Two 11Ghz channels will be 80Mhz wide. intelpath charges under $200 to see if the possibility even exists.
Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 16, 2015, at 1:57 PM, TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com<mailto:***@voltbb.com>> wrote:

I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com<mailto:***@voltbb.com>> wrote:

So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
Jeremy
2015-01-16 18:59:35 UTC
Permalink
11GHz is cheaper if I recall.

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:57 AM, TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com> wrote:

> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz
> radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>
>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the
>> most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much
>> besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking
>> about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are
>> my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>
>
Jeremy
2015-01-16 19:01:12 UTC
Permalink
Our 6GHz Trango Lynx was almost $12K with dishes.

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Jeremy <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> 11GHz is cheaper if I recall.
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:57 AM, TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>
>> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz
>> radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the
>>> most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much
>>> besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking
>>> about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are
>>> my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>>
>>
>
Gino Villarini
2015-01-16 19:02:32 UTC
Permalink
11 ghz integra



Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com
@aeronetpr



From: TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com<mailto:***@voltbb.com>>
Reply-To: "***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>" <***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>>
Date: Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
To: "***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>" <***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?


I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?

On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com<mailto:***@voltbb.com>> wrote:

So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
TJ Trout
2015-01-16 19:05:02 UTC
Permalink
11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz!
Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com> wrote:

> 11 ghz integra
>
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
> President
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
> www.aeronetpr.com
> @aeronetpr
>
>
>
> From: TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
> Reply-To: "***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
> Date: Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
> To: "***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz
> radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>
>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the
>> most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much
>> besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking
>> about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are
>> my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>
>
Josh Luthman
2015-01-16 19:12:02 UTC
Permalink
It's just a factor. What other options can do 80 MHz? Can they do 1024
QAM? I'd bet 60 MHz * 1024qam is pretty close to 80 MHz * 256qam.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:05 PM, TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com> wrote:

> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz!
> Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com>
> wrote:
>
>> 11 ghz integra
>>
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> President
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> www.aeronetpr.com
>> @aeronetpr
>>
>>
>>
>> From: TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>> Reply-To: "***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>> Date: Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
>> To: "***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz
>> 80mhz radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the
>>> most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much
>>> besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking
>>> about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are
>>> my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>>
>>
>
Seth Mattinen
2015-01-16 19:19:44 UTC
Permalink
On 1/16/15 11:12, Josh Luthman wrote:
> It's just a factor. What other options can do 80 MHz? Can they do 1024
> QAM? I'd bet 60 MHz * 1024qam is pretty close to 80 MHz * 256qam.


Yeah, probably only a 30 meg raw capacity difference.

~Seth
Hardy, Tim
2015-01-16 19:44:16 UTC
Permalink
Maximum bandwidth at 6 GHz is 60 MHz


From: Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 2:18 PM
To: ***@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.


From: TJ Trout<mailto:***@voltbb.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
To: ***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz! Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com<mailto:***@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:
11 ghz integra



Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com<http://www.aeronetpr.com>
@aeronetpr



From: TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com<mailto:***@voltbb.com>>
Reply-To: "***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>" <***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>>
Date: Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
To: "***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>" <***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?


I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com<mailto:***@voltbb.com>> wrote:

So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
Josh Luthman
2015-01-16 19:46:14 UTC
Permalink
How often do you find 60 MHz channels available?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com> wrote:

> Maximum bandwidth at 6 GHz is 60 MHz

>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 2:18 PM
> *To:* ***@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel
> widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist
> in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need
> to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that
> does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe
> having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>
> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz!
> Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com>
> wrote:
>
> 11 ghz integra
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
>
> President
>
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>
> www.aeronetpr.com
>
> @aeronetpr
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
> *Reply-To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
> *Date: *Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
> *To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz
> radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>
> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>
> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most
> economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides
> 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying
> another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options
> that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>
>
>
Hardy, Tim
2015-01-16 19:50:34 UTC
Permalink
Depends on location, direction and flexibility to upgrade antennas or accept some degradation. We’re licensing quite a few of these.

From: Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Luthman
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 2:46 PM
To: ***@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

How often do you find 60 MHz channels available?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:44 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com<mailto:***@comsearch.com>> wrote:
Maximum bandwidth at 6 GHz is 60 MHz


From: Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com<mailto:af-***@afmug.com>] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 2:18 PM
To: ***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.


From: TJ Trout<mailto:***@voltbb.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
To: ***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz! Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com<mailto:***@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:
11 ghz integra



Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com<http://www.aeronetpr.com>
@aeronetpr



From: TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com<mailto:***@voltbb.com>>
Reply-To: "***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>" <***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>>
Date: Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
To: "***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>" <***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?


I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com<mailto:***@voltbb.com>> wrote:

So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
Gino Villarini
2015-01-16 20:02:28 UTC
Permalink
Yes, but xpic is x2 the cost



Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com
@aeronetpr



From: Ken Hohhof <***@kwisp.com<mailto:***@kwisp.com>>
Reply-To: "***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>" <***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>>
Date: Friday, January 16, 2015 at 3:58 PM
To: "***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>" <***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?

I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6 GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.

From: Mike Hammett<mailto:***@ics-il.net>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
To: ***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6 GHz... IIRC.



-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

________________________________
From: "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com<mailto:***@kwisp.com>>
To: ***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.


From: TJ Trout<mailto:***@voltbb.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
To: ***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz! Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com<mailto:***@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:
11 ghz integra



Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com<http://www.aeronetpr.com>
@aeronetpr



From: TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com<mailto:***@voltbb.com>>
Reply-To: "***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>" <***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>>
Date: Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
To: "***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>" <***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?


I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?

On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com<mailto:***@voltbb.com>> wrote:

So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
Charles Boening
2015-01-16 20:04:58 UTC
Permalink
Looks like a full 60 in our Aviat gear.

[cid:***@01D03184.A0B401E0]



__________________________________

Charles Boening
Network Manager
800-858-2399 | Office
***@calore.net<mailto:***@calore.net>

www.cot.net<http://www.cot.net/> | Find us on Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/pages/Cal-Ore/205066716227707>
__________________________________
Cal-Ore | Real. Local. Trusted. Professional.

From: Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 11:59 AM
To: ***@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?

I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6 GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.

From: Mike Hammett<mailto:***@ics-il.net>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
To: ***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6 GHz... IIRC.


-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

________________________________
From: "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
To: ***@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.


From: TJ Trout<mailto:***@voltbb.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
To: ***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz! Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com<mailto:***@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:
11 ghz integra



Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com<http://www.aeronetpr.com>
@aeronetpr



From: TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com<mailto:***@voltbb.com>>
Reply-To: "***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>" <***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>>
Date: Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
To: "***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>" <***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?


I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com<mailto:***@voltbb.com>> wrote:

So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
Hardy, Tim
2015-01-16 20:07:20 UTC
Permalink
It’s really 60!

60 MHz

CH

N(

G(

1

5960.0250

6212.0650

2

6019.3250

6271.3650

3

6078.6250

6330.6650

4

6137.9250

6389.9650


As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment. If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on the orthogonal polarization.

From: Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
To: ***@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?

I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6 GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.

From: Mike Hammett<mailto:***@ics-il.net>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
To: ***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6 GHz... IIRC.


-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

________________________________
From: "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com<mailto:***@kwisp.com>>
To: ***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.


From: TJ Trout<mailto:***@voltbb.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
To: ***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz! Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com<mailto:***@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:
11 ghz integra



Gino A. Villarini
President
Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
www.aeronetpr.com<http://www.aeronetpr.com>
@aeronetpr



From: TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com<mailto:***@voltbb.com>>
Reply-To: "***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>" <***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>>
Date: Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
To: "***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>" <***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?


I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com<mailto:***@voltbb.com>> wrote:

So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
Jeremy
2015-01-16 20:10:14 UTC
Permalink
It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet
was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP
throughput that you can expect.

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com> wrote:

> It’s really 60!
>
>
>
> *60 MHz *
>
> *CH*
>
> *N(*
>
> *G(*
>
> 1
>
> 5960.0250
>
> 6212.0650
>
> 2
>
> 6019.3250
>
> 6271.3650
>
> 3
>
> 6078.6250
>
> 6330.6650
>
> 4
>
> 6137.9250
>
> 6389.9650
>
>
>
> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment. If
> x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on the
> orthogonal polarization.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>
> *To:* ***@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>
>
>
> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel than
> to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6 GHz,
> mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna rules to
> allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you enough
> gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to
> multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you can do in
> 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>
>
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett <***@ics-il.net>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>
> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6
> GHz... IIRC.
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
> *To: ****@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel
> widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist
> in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need
> to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that
> does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe
> having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>
> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz!
> Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com>
> wrote:
>
> 11 ghz integra
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
>
> President
>
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>
> www.aeronetpr.com
>
> @aeronetpr
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
> *Reply-To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
> *Date: *Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
> *To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz
> radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>
> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>
> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most
> economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides
> 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying
> another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options
> that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>
>
>
>
>
Josh Luthman
2015-01-16 20:13:40 UTC
Permalink
That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets net you greater
throughput?


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet
> was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP
> throughput that you can expect.
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com> wrote:
>
>> It’s really 60!
>>
>>
>>
>> *60 MHz *
>>
>> *CH*
>>
>> *N(*
>>
>> *G(*
>>
>> 1
>>
>> 5960.0250
>>
>> 6212.0650
>>
>> 2
>>
>> 6019.3250
>>
>> 6271.3650
>>
>> 3
>>
>> 6078.6250
>>
>> 6330.6650
>>
>> 4
>>
>> 6137.9250
>>
>> 6389.9650
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment.
>> If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on
>> the orthogonal polarization.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>>
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel
>> than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6
>> GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna
>> rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you
>> enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is
>> subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you
>> can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mike Hammett <***@ics-il.net>
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>>
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6
>> GHz... IIRC.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
>> *To: ****@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel
>> widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist
>> in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need
>> to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that
>> does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe
>> having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>>
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz!
>> Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> 11 ghz integra
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>>
>> President
>>
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>
>> www.aeronetpr.com
>>
>> @aeronetpr
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>> *Reply-To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>> *Date: *Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
>> *To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz
>> radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>
>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the
>> most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much
>> besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking
>> about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are
>> my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Jon Langeler
2015-01-16 21:03:33 UTC
Permalink
compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at 256byte and larger...it's a curve.

Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing' during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...

-Jon

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
> That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets net you greater throughput?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>> It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP throughput that you can expect.
>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com> wrote:
>>> It’s really 60!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 60 MHz
>>>
>>> CH
>>>
>>> N(
>>>
>>> G(
>>>
>>> 1
>>>
>>> 5960.0250
>>>
>>> 6212.0650
>>>
>>> 2
>>>
>>> 6019.3250
>>>
>>> 6271.3650
>>>
>>> 3
>>>
>>> 6078.6250
>>>
>>> 6330.6650
>>>
>>> 4
>>>
>>> 6137.9250
>>>
>>> 6389.9650
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment. If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on the orthogonal polarization.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> To: ***@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>
>>>
>>> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6 GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: Mike Hammett
>>>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>>>
>>> To: ***@afmug.com
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6 GHz... IIRC.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
>>> To: ***@afmug.com
>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>
>>> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: TJ Trout
>>>
>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>>>
>>> To: ***@afmug.com
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz! Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> 11 ghz integra
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>>
>>> President
>>>
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>>
>>> www.aeronetpr.com
>>>
>>> @aeronetpr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>> Reply-To: "***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>>> Date: Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
>>> To: "***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>>>
>>> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>>
>
TJ Trout
2015-01-16 21:48:18 UTC
Permalink
What is my least expensive option for getting more bandwidth in 6ghz or
11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net>
wrote:

> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at 256byte
> and larger...it's a curve.
>
> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be
> slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing'
> during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size
> dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>
> -Jon
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
> wrote:
>
> That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets net you greater
> throughput?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet
>> was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP
>> throughput that you can expect.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It’s really 60!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *60 MHz *
>>>
>>> *CH*
>>>
>>> *N(*
>>>
>>> *G(*
>>>
>>> 1
>>>
>>> 5960.0250
>>>
>>> 6212.0650
>>>
>>> 2
>>>
>>> 6019.3250
>>>
>>> 6271.3650
>>>
>>> 3
>>>
>>> 6078.6250
>>>
>>> 6330.6650
>>>
>>> 4
>>>
>>> 6137.9250
>>>
>>> 6389.9650
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment.
>>> If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on
>>> the orthogonal polarization.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel
>>> than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6
>>> GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna
>>> rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you
>>> enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is
>>> subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you
>>> can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Mike Hammett <***@ics-il.net>
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6
>>> GHz... IIRC.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
>>> *To: ****@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>
>>> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel
>>> widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist
>>> in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need
>>> to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that
>>> does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe
>>> having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz!
>>> Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 11 ghz integra
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>>
>>> President
>>>
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>>
>>> www.aeronetpr.com
>>>
>>> @aeronetpr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>> *Reply-To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>>> *Date: *Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
>>> *To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz
>>> radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>>>
>>> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the
>>> most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much
>>> besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking
>>> about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are
>>> my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
Jon Langeler
2015-01-16 22:00:05 UTC
Permalink
IP20C HP. Get a new FCC license :) You'll have another polarity to use later or in another direction.

Jon

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 16, 2015, at 4:48 PM, TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>
> What is my least expensive option for getting more bandwidth in 6ghz or 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net> wrote:
>> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at 256byte and larger...it's a curve.
>>
>> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing' during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets net you greater throughput?
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP throughput that you can expect.
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com> wrote:
>>>>> It’s really 60!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 60 MHz
>>>>>
>>>>> CH
>>>>>
>>>>> N(
>>>>>
>>>>> G(
>>>>>
>>>>> 1
>>>>>
>>>>> 5960.0250
>>>>>
>>>>> 6212.0650
>>>>>
>>>>> 2
>>>>>
>>>>> 6019.3250
>>>>>
>>>>> 6271.3650
>>>>>
>>>>> 3
>>>>>
>>>>> 6078.6250
>>>>>
>>>>> 6330.6650
>>>>>
>>>>> 4
>>>>>
>>>>> 6137.9250
>>>>>
>>>>> 6389.9650
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment. If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on the orthogonal polarization.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> To: ***@afmug.com
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6 GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Mike Hammett
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> To: ***@afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6 GHz... IIRC.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
>>>>> To: ***@afmug.com
>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>
>>>>> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: TJ Trout
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> To: ***@afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz! Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 11 ghz integra
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>>>>
>>>>> President
>>>>>
>>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>>>>
>>>>> www.aeronetpr.com
>>>>>
>>>>> @aeronetpr
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> From: TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>>>> Reply-To: "***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>>>>> Date: Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
>>>>> To: "***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>>>>
>
TJ Trout
2015-01-16 22:01:45 UTC
Permalink
What's the HP high power? What's the cost on that bad boy?

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net>
wrote:

> IP20C HP. Get a new FCC license :) You'll have another polarity to use
> later or in another direction.
>
> Jon
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 16, 2015, at 4:48 PM, TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>
> What is my least expensive option for getting more bandwidth in 6ghz or
> 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net>
> wrote:
>
>> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at
>> 256byte and larger...it's a curve.
>>
>> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be
>> slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing'
>> during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size
>> dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets net you greater
>> throughput?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet
>>> was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP
>>> throughput that you can expect.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It’s really 60!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *60 MHz *
>>>>
>>>> *CH*
>>>>
>>>> *N(*
>>>>
>>>> *G(*
>>>>
>>>> 1
>>>>
>>>> 5960.0250
>>>>
>>>> 6212.0650
>>>>
>>>> 2
>>>>
>>>> 6019.3250
>>>>
>>>> 6271.3650
>>>>
>>>> 3
>>>>
>>>> 6078.6250
>>>>
>>>> 6330.6650
>>>>
>>>> 4
>>>>
>>>> 6137.9250
>>>>
>>>> 6389.9650
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment.
>>>> If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on
>>>> the orthogonal polarization.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>>>>
>>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel
>>>> than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6
>>>> GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna
>>>> rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you
>>>> enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is
>>>> subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you
>>>> can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Mike Hammett <***@ics-il.net>
>>>>
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>>>>
>>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6
>>>> GHz... IIRC.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
>>>> *To: ****@afmug.com
>>>> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>
>>>> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel
>>>> widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist
>>>> in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need
>>>> to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that
>>>> does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe
>>>> having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>>>
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>>>>
>>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz!
>>>> Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 11 ghz integra
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>>>
>>>> President
>>>>
>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>>>
>>>> www.aeronetpr.com
>>>>
>>>> @aeronetpr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>>> *Reply-To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>>>> *Date: *Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
>>>> *To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz
>>>> radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the
>>>> most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much
>>>> besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking
>>>> about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are
>>>> my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
Jon Langeler
2015-01-16 22:16:38 UTC
Permalink
+3db over non-HP models. I'll sell one link with full speed, etc. and advanced replacement for $13k or less if anyone is interested.

Jon Langeler
Michwave Tech.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 16, 2015, at 5:01 PM, TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>
> What's the HP high power? What's the cost on that bad boy?
>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net> wrote:
>> IP20C HP. Get a new FCC license :) You'll have another polarity to use later or in another direction.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 4:48 PM, TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> What is my least expensive option for getting more bandwidth in 6ghz or 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net> wrote:
>>>> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at 256byte and larger...it's a curve.
>>>>
>>>> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing' during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>>>>
>>>> -Jon
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets net you greater throughput?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Josh Luthman
>>>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>>>> Suite 1337
>>>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP throughput that you can expect.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> It’s really 60!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 60 MHz
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> CH
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> N(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> G(
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 5960.0250
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 6212.0650
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 6019.3250
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 6271.3650
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 3
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 6078.6250
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 6330.6650
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 4
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 6137.9250
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 6389.9650
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment. If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on the orthogonal polarization.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: ***@afmug.com
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6 GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Mike Hammett
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: ***@afmug.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6 GHz... IIRC.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----
>>>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
>>>>>>> To: ***@afmug.com
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: TJ Trout
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> To: ***@afmug.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz! Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 11 ghz integra
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> President
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> www.aeronetpr.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> @aeronetpr
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>>>>>> Reply-To: "***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>>>>>>> Date: Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
>>>>>>> To: "***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>>>>>>
>
TJ Trout
2015-01-16 22:25:02 UTC
Permalink
What's the price on the 11ghz integra-s? Do you think with wisp type
traffic (majority streaming video) that any increase will be realized using
header compression?

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Mike Hammett <***@ics-il.net> wrote:

> Sounds like a hell of a deal!
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Jon Langeler" <jon-***@michwave.net>
> *To: ****@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 4:16:38 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
> +3db over non-HP models. I'll sell one link with full speed, etc. and
> advanced replacement for $13k or less if anyone is interested.
>
> Jon Langeler
> Michwave Tech.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 16, 2015, at 5:01 PM, TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>
> What's the HP high power? What's the cost on that bad boy?
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net>
> wrote:
>
>> IP20C HP. Get a new FCC license :) You'll have another polarity to use
>> later or in another direction.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 4:48 PM, TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>
>> What is my least expensive option for getting more bandwidth in 6ghz or
>> 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at
>>> 256byte and larger...it's a curve.
>>>
>>> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be
>>> slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing'
>>> during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size
>>> dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>>>
>>> -Jon
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets net you greater
>>> throughput?
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every
>>>> packet was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP
>>>> throughput that you can expect.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It’s really 60!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *60 MHz *
>>>>>
>>>>> *CH*
>>>>>
>>>>> *N(*
>>>>>
>>>>> *G(*
>>>>>
>>>>> 1
>>>>>
>>>>> 5960.0250
>>>>>
>>>>> 6212.0650
>>>>>
>>>>> 2
>>>>>
>>>>> 6019.3250
>>>>>
>>>>> 6271.3650
>>>>>
>>>>> 3
>>>>>
>>>>> 6078.6250
>>>>>
>>>>> 6330.6650
>>>>>
>>>>> 4
>>>>>
>>>>> 6137.9250
>>>>>
>>>>> 6389.9650
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the
>>>>> environment. If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be
>>>>> available on the orthogonal polarization.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel
>>>>> than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6
>>>>> GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna
>>>>> rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you
>>>>> enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is
>>>>> subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you
>>>>> can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Mike Hammett <***@ics-il.net>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of
>>>>> 6 GHz... IIRC.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
>>>>> *To: ****@afmug.com
>>>>> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>
>>>>> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC
>>>>> channel widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels
>>>>> exist in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you
>>>>> need to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio
>>>>> that does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe
>>>>> having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just
>>>>> 60mhz! Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way
>>>>> to go?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 11 ghz integra
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>>>>
>>>>> President
>>>>>
>>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>>>>
>>>>> www.aeronetpr.com
>>>>>
>>>>> @aeronetpr
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From: *TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>>>> *Reply-To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>>>>> *Date: *Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
>>>>> *To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz
>>>>> 80mhz radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the
>>>>> most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much
>>>>> besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking
>>>>> about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are
>>>>> my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
TJ Trout
2015-01-16 22:09:46 UTC
Permalink
Mike;

Integra not available in 6 or 11, when they are it's only 100 meg jump in
performance from the lumina...

I'll checkout trango and maybe alcoma. Sounds like the IP20c is where it's
at but I'm assuming they are 40K?

On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:01 PM, TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com> wrote:

> What's the HP high power? What's the cost on that bad boy?
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net>
> wrote:
>
>> IP20C HP. Get a new FCC license :) You'll have another polarity to use
>> later or in another direction.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 4:48 PM, TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>
>> What is my least expensive option for getting more bandwidth in 6ghz or
>> 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at
>>> 256byte and larger...it's a curve.
>>>
>>> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be
>>> slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing'
>>> during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size
>>> dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>>>
>>> -Jon
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets net you greater
>>> throughput?
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every
>>>> packet was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP
>>>> throughput that you can expect.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It’s really 60!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *60 MHz *
>>>>>
>>>>> *CH*
>>>>>
>>>>> *N(*
>>>>>
>>>>> *G(*
>>>>>
>>>>> 1
>>>>>
>>>>> 5960.0250
>>>>>
>>>>> 6212.0650
>>>>>
>>>>> 2
>>>>>
>>>>> 6019.3250
>>>>>
>>>>> 6271.3650
>>>>>
>>>>> 3
>>>>>
>>>>> 6078.6250
>>>>>
>>>>> 6330.6650
>>>>>
>>>>> 4
>>>>>
>>>>> 6137.9250
>>>>>
>>>>> 6389.9650
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the
>>>>> environment. If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be
>>>>> available on the orthogonal polarization.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel
>>>>> than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6
>>>>> GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna
>>>>> rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you
>>>>> enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is
>>>>> subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you
>>>>> can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* Mike Hammett <***@ics-il.net>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of
>>>>> 6 GHz... IIRC.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----
>>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
>>>>> *To: ****@afmug.com
>>>>> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>
>>>>> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC
>>>>> channel widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels
>>>>> exist in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you
>>>>> need to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio
>>>>> that does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe
>>>>> having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:* TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>>>>
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>>>>
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just
>>>>> 60mhz! Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way
>>>>> to go?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> 11 ghz integra
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>>>>
>>>>> President
>>>>>
>>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>>>>
>>>>> www.aeronetpr.com
>>>>>
>>>>> @aeronetpr
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> *From: *TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>>>> *Reply-To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>>>>> *Date: *Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
>>>>> *To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz
>>>>> 80mhz radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the
>>>>> most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much
>>>>> besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking
>>>>> about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are
>>>>> my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
Josh Luthman
2015-01-16 21:52:22 UTC
Permalink
Are you buying everything new? Ask SAF what bands work with your proposed
link. Consider dish size.

Now with possible bands, see what are available from a frequency
coordinator.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 16, 2015 4:48 PM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:

> What is my least expensive option for getting more bandwidth in 6ghz or
> 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net>
> wrote:
>
>> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at
>> 256byte and larger...it's a curve.
>>
>> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be
>> slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing'
>> during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size
>> dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets net you greater
>> throughput?
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet
>>> was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP
>>> throughput that you can expect.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It’s really 60!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *60 MHz *
>>>>
>>>> *CH*
>>>>
>>>> *N(*
>>>>
>>>> *G(*
>>>>
>>>> 1
>>>>
>>>> 5960.0250
>>>>
>>>> 6212.0650
>>>>
>>>> 2
>>>>
>>>> 6019.3250
>>>>
>>>> 6271.3650
>>>>
>>>> 3
>>>>
>>>> 6078.6250
>>>>
>>>> 6330.6650
>>>>
>>>> 4
>>>>
>>>> 6137.9250
>>>>
>>>> 6389.9650
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment.
>>>> If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on
>>>> the orthogonal polarization.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>>>>
>>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel
>>>> than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6
>>>> GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna
>>>> rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you
>>>> enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is
>>>> subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you
>>>> can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* Mike Hammett <***@ics-il.net>
>>>>
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>>>>
>>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6
>>>> GHz... IIRC.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> Mike Hammett
>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>
>>>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
>>>> *To: ****@afmug.com
>>>> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>
>>>> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel
>>>> widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist
>>>> in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need
>>>> to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that
>>>> does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe
>>>> having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From:* TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>>>
>>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>>>>
>>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz!
>>>> Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> 11 ghz integra
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>>>
>>>> President
>>>>
>>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>>>
>>>> www.aeronetpr.com
>>>>
>>>> @aeronetpr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *From: *TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>>> *Reply-To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>>>> *Date: *Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
>>>> *To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz
>>>> radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>>>>
>>>> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the
>>>> most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much
>>>> besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking
>>>> about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are
>>>> my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
SmarterBroadband
2015-01-19 18:31:06 UTC
Permalink
You could also look at the Exalt ExtremeAir.

2 x 80 Mhz channels with X-Pic all in one all-outdoor unit.

Does a Gig.

Adam



From: Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:48 PM
To: ***@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?



What is my least expensive option for getting more bandwidth in 6ghz or 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?



On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net> wrote:

compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at 256byte and larger...it's a curve.



Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing' during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...



-Jon



Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:

That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets net you greater throughput?






Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy <***@gmail.com> wrote:

It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP throughput that you can expect.



On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com> wrote:

It’s really 60!




60 MHz


CH

N(

G(


1

5960.0250

6212.0650


2

6019.3250

6271.3650


3

6078.6250

6330.6650


4

6137.9250

6389.9650



As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment. If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on the orthogonal polarization.



From: Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM


To: ***@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?



In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?



I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6 GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.



From: Mike Hammett <mailto:***@ics-il.net>

Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM

To: ***@afmug.com

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?



30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6 GHz... IIRC.



-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com




_____


From: "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
To: ***@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?

I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.





From: TJ Trout <mailto:***@voltbb.com>

Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM

To: ***@afmug.com

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?



11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz! Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?



On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com> wrote:

11 ghz integra







Gino A. Villarini

President

Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.

www.aeronetpr.com

@aeronetpr







From: TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
Reply-To: "***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
Date: Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
To: "***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?



I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?

On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:

So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
Steve Utick
2015-01-19 18:46:32 UTC
Permalink
My problem is at this point, I've had so many problems with Exalt that I'm
not sure I'd buy another one of their radios period....



On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:31 AM, SmarterBroadband <
***@smarterbroadband.com> wrote:

> You could also look at the Exalt ExtremeAir.
>
> 2 x 80 Mhz channels with X-Pic all in one all-outdoor unit.
>
> Does a Gig.
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:48 PM
> *To:* ***@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> What is my least expensive option for getting more bandwidth in 6ghz or
> 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net>
> wrote:
>
> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at 256byte
> and larger...it's a curve.
>
>
>
> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be
> slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing'
> during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size
> dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>
>
>
> -Jon
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
> wrote:
>
> That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets net you greater
> throughput?
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet
> was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP
> throughput that you can expect.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com> wrote:
>
> It’s really 60!
>
>
>
> *60 MHz *
>
> *CH*
>
> *N(*
>
> *G(*
>
> 1
>
> 5960.0250
>
> 6212.0650
>
> 2
>
> 6019.3250
>
> 6271.3650
>
> 3
>
> 6078.6250
>
> 6330.6650
>
> 4
>
> 6137.9250
>
> 6389.9650
>
>
>
> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment. If
> x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on the
> orthogonal polarization.
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>
>
> *To:* ***@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>
>
>
> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel than
> to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6 GHz,
> mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna rules to
> allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you enough
> gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to
> multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you can do in
> 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>
>
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett <***@ics-il.net>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>
> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6
> GHz... IIRC.
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
> *To: ****@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel
> widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist
> in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need
> to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that
> does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe
> having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>
> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz!
> Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com>
> wrote:
>
> 11 ghz integra
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
>
> President
>
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>
> www.aeronetpr.com
>
> @aeronetpr
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
> *Reply-To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
> *Date: *Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
> *To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz
> radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>
> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>
> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most
> economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides
> 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying
> another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options
> that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Dan Petermann
2015-01-19 19:24:32 UTC
Permalink
I’m curious also. I have 13 ExtremeAir links, and a few G2 and ExploreAir.


On Jan 19, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Ken Hohhof <***@kwisp.com> wrote:

> What kind of problems, and what model?
>
> The G2 links we put in just worked. Granted that is their entry level model, maybe less to go wrong.
>
>
> From: Steve Utick
> Sent: Monday, January 19, 2015 12:46 PM
> To: ***@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
> My problem is at this point, I've had so many problems with Exalt that I'm not sure I'd buy another one of their radios period....
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:31 AM, SmarterBroadband <***@smarterbroadband.com> wrote:
> You could also look at the Exalt ExtremeAir.
>
> 2 x 80 Mhz channels with X-Pic all in one all-outdoor unit.
>
> Does a Gig.
>
> Adam
>
>
>
> From: Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] On Behalf Of TJ Trout
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:48 PM
> To: ***@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> What is my least expensive option for getting more bandwidth in 6ghz or 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net> wrote:
>
> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at 256byte and larger...it's a curve.
>
>
>
> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing' during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>
>
>
> -Jon
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
> That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets net you greater throughput?
>
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP throughput that you can expect.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com> wrote:
>
> It’s really 60!
>
>
>
> 60 MHz
>
> CH
>
> N(
>
> G(
>
> 1
>
> 5960.0250
>
> 6212.0650
>
> 2
>
> 6019.3250
>
> 6271.3650
>
> 3
>
> 6078.6250
>
> 6330.6650
>
> 4
>
> 6137.9250
>
> 6389.9650
>
>
>
> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment. If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on the orthogonal polarization.
>
>
>
> From: Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>
>
> To: ***@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>
>
>
> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6 GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>
>
>
> From: Mike Hammett
>
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>
> To: ***@afmug.com
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6 GHz... IIRC.
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
>
>
> From: "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
> To: ***@afmug.com
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: TJ Trout
>
> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>
> To: ***@afmug.com
>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz! Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com> wrote:
>
> 11 ghz integra
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
>
> President
>
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>
> www.aeronetpr.com
>
> @aeronetpr
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
> Reply-To: "***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
> Date: Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
> To: "***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>
> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>
> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Steve Utick
2015-01-19 19:43:03 UTC
Permalink
We have three G2 links in currently. We had problems with two of those.
One, the radio died a few hours after we put it up. The other link, the
snout on the radio was too small to fit over the feedhorn on the antenna.
Of course, both of these issues had "Never been seen before" at Exalt.

The ExploreAir LR link we are having problems with, I've been through 5
radios to get two that somewhat work. We are still off by 8db on the path
though, and have OOB Management issues that they haven't been able to
resolve. We've been fighting this link for a couple of months now, and
still haven't passed traffic over it...



On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Dan Petermann <***@wyoming.com> wrote:

> I’m curious also. I have 13 ExtremeAir links, and a few G2 and ExploreAir.
>
>
> On Jan 19, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Ken Hohhof <***@kwisp.com> wrote:
>
> What kind of problems, and what model?
>
> The G2 links we put in just worked. Granted that is their entry level
> model, maybe less to go wrong.
>
>
> *From:* Steve Utick <***@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 19, 2015 12:46 PM
> *To:* ***@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
> My problem is at this point, I've had so many problems with Exalt that
> I'm not sure I'd buy another one of their radios period....
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:31 AM, SmarterBroadband <
> ***@smarterbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> You could also look at the Exalt ExtremeAir.
>>
>> 2 x 80 Mhz channels with X-Pic all in one all-outdoor unit.
>>
>> Does a Gig.
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:48 PM
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> What is my least expensive option for getting more bandwidth in 6ghz or
>> 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at
>> 256byte and larger...it's a curve.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be
>> slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing'
>> during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size
>> dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>>
>>
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets net you greater
>> throughput?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every
>> packet was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP
>> throughput that you can expect.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com> wrote:
>>
>> It’s really 60!
>>
>>
>>
>> *60 MHz *
>>
>> *CH*
>>
>> *N(*
>>
>> *G(*
>>
>> 1
>>
>> 5960.0250
>>
>> 6212.0650
>>
>> 2
>>
>> 6019.3250
>>
>> 6271.3650
>>
>> 3
>>
>> 6078.6250
>>
>> 6330.6650
>>
>> 4
>>
>> 6137.9250
>>
>> 6389.9650
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment.
>> If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on
>> the orthogonal polarization.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>>
>>
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel
>> than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6
>> GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna
>> rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you
>> enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is
>> subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you
>> can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mike Hammett <***@ics-il.net>
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>>
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6
>> GHz... IIRC.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
>> *To: ****@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel
>> widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist
>> in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need
>> to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that
>> does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe
>> having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>>
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz!
>> Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> 11 ghz integra
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>>
>> President
>>
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>
>> www.aeronetpr.com
>>
>> @aeronetpr
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>> *Reply-To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>> *Date: *Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
>> *To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz
>> radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>
>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the
>> most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much
>> besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking
>> about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are
>> my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Steve Utick
2015-01-19 20:53:57 UTC
Permalink
All of our Exalt stuff is over the last year. My personal feeling is that
there are a LOT of quality control issues happening over the last year with
the employee buyout/organization change.

There was no way this one was going to fit. It just flat wasn't milled
out big enough. We could have maybe made it fit with a bigger hammer, but
I didn't really want to do that. When we got the replacement radio, it
fit right on the antenna, so it was clearly a problem with the radio. I
think it's all been RadioWaves antennas.



On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 12:50 PM, Ken Hohhof <***@kwisp.com> wrote:

> When were these purchased? Was it after their organization/ownership
> change, or before that? Just wondering if that is a factor.
>
> FWIW we found the Exalt slip fit mount was a tight fit on the Radiowaves
> antennas we bought, but it was mainly learning to use the latches to pull
> it tight and not try to do it by hand. But if you’ve gone through a bunch
> of radios you already know this. What brand antennas?
>
>
> *From:* Steve Utick <***@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 19, 2015 1:43 PM
> *To:* ***@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
> We have three G2 links in currently. We had problems with two of
> those. One, the radio died a few hours after we put it up. The other
> link, the snout on the radio was too small to fit over the feedhorn on the
> antenna. Of course, both of these issues had "Never been seen before" at
> Exalt.
>
> The ExploreAir LR link we are having problems with, I've been through 5
> radios to get two that somewhat work. We are still off by 8db on the path
> though, and have OOB Management issues that they haven't been able to
> resolve. We've been fighting this link for a couple of months now, and
> still haven't passed traffic over it...
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Dan Petermann <***@wyoming.com> wrote:
>
>> I’m curious also. I have 13 ExtremeAir links, and a few G2 and
>> ExploreAir.
>>
>>
>> On Jan 19, 2015, at 12:15 PM, Ken Hohhof <***@kwisp.com> wrote:
>>
>> What kind of problems, and what model?
>>
>> The G2 links we put in just worked. Granted that is their entry level
>> model, maybe less to go wrong.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Steve Utick <***@gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 19, 2015 12:46 PM
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>> My problem is at this point, I've had so many problems with Exalt that
>> I'm not sure I'd buy another one of their radios period....
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:31 AM, SmarterBroadband <
>> ***@smarterbroadband.com> wrote:
>>
>>> You could also look at the Exalt ExtremeAir.
>>>
>>> 2 x 80 Mhz channels with X-Pic all in one all-outdoor unit.
>>>
>>> Does a Gig.
>>>
>>> Adam
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:48 PM
>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> What is my least expensive option for getting more bandwidth in 6ghz or
>>> 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at
>>> 256byte and larger...it's a curve.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be
>>> slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing'
>>> during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size
>>> dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Jon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets net you greater
>>> throughput?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every
>>> packet was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP
>>> throughput that you can expect.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> It’s really 60!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *60 MHz *
>>>
>>> *CH*
>>>
>>> *N(*
>>>
>>> *G(*
>>>
>>> 1
>>>
>>> 5960.0250
>>>
>>> 6212.0650
>>>
>>> 2
>>>
>>> 6019.3250
>>>
>>> 6271.3650
>>>
>>> 3
>>>
>>> 6078.6250
>>>
>>> 6330.6650
>>>
>>> 4
>>>
>>> 6137.9250
>>>
>>> 6389.9650
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment.
>>> If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on
>>> the orthogonal polarization.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>>>
>>>
>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel
>>> than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6
>>> GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna
>>> rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you
>>> enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is
>>> subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you
>>> can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Mike Hammett <***@ics-il.net>
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6
>>> GHz... IIRC.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Mike Hammett
>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
>>> *To: ****@afmug.com
>>> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>
>>> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel
>>> widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist
>>> in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need
>>> to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that
>>> does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe
>>> having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>>
>>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>>>
>>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz!
>>> Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 11 ghz integra
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gino A. Villarini
>>>
>>> President
>>>
>>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>>
>>> www.aeronetpr.com
>>>
>>> @aeronetpr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From: *TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>> *Reply-To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>>> *Date: *Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
>>> *To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz
>>> radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>>>
>>> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the
>>> most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much
>>> besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking
>>> about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are
>>> my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Steve Discher
2015-01-20 03:43:33 UTC
Permalink
Butting in here. We sell a ton of Exalt with zero comebacks. What issues are you having?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jan 19, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Steve Utick <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My problem is at this point, I've had so many problems with Exalt that I'm not sure I'd buy another one of their radios period....
>
>
>
>> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:31 AM, SmarterBroadband <***@smarterbroadband.com> wrote:
>> You could also look at the Exalt ExtremeAir.
>>
>> 2 x 80 Mhz channels with X-Pic all in one all-outdoor unit.
>>
>> Does a Gig.
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] On Behalf Of TJ Trout
>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:48 PM
>> To: ***@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> What is my least expensive option for getting more bandwidth in 6ghz or 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net> wrote:
>>
>> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at 256byte and larger...it's a curve.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing' during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>>
>>
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>> That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets net you greater throughput?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP throughput that you can expect.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com> wrote:
>>
>> It’s really 60!
>>
>>
>>
>> 60 MHz
>>
>> CH
>>
>> N(
>>
>> G(
>>
>> 1
>>
>> 5960.0250
>>
>> 6212.0650
>>
>> 2
>>
>> 6019.3250
>>
>> 6271.3650
>>
>> 3
>>
>> 6078.6250
>>
>> 6330.6650
>>
>> 4
>>
>> 6137.9250
>>
>> 6389.9650
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment. If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on the orthogonal polarization.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>>
>>
>> To: ***@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6 GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: Mike Hammett
>>
>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>>
>> To: ***@afmug.com
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6 GHz... IIRC.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>>
>> From: "Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
>> To: ***@afmug.com
>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: TJ Trout
>>
>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>>
>> To: ***@afmug.com
>>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz! Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com> wrote:
>>
>> 11 ghz integra
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>>
>> President
>>
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>
>> www.aeronetpr.com
>>
>> @aeronetpr
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From: TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>> Reply-To: "***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>> Date: Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
>> To: "***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>
>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>
>
TJ Trout
2015-01-20 03:47:28 UTC
Permalink
I'm sorry if I'm beating a dead horse here, but besides the integra which
we don't have availability or pricing on yet, what are some of the "lower"
cost options for something say 600mbps or better that are currently
available? The IP20C looks like the best thing available but $30k is a
little too spendy

On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 7:43 PM, Steve Discher <***@ispsupplies.com>
wrote:

> Butting in here. We sell a ton of Exalt with zero comebacks. What issues
> are you having?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 19, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Steve Utick <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My problem is at this point, I've had so many problems with Exalt that I'm
> not sure I'd buy another one of their radios period....
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:31 AM, SmarterBroadband <
> ***@smarterbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> You could also look at the Exalt ExtremeAir.
>>
>> 2 x 80 Mhz channels with X-Pic all in one all-outdoor unit.
>>
>> Does a Gig.
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:48 PM
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> What is my least expensive option for getting more bandwidth in 6ghz or
>> 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at
>> 256byte and larger...it's a curve.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be
>> slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing'
>> during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size
>> dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>>
>>
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets net you greater
>> throughput?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet
>> was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP
>> throughput that you can expect.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com> wrote:
>>
>> It’s really 60!
>>
>>
>>
>> *60 MHz *
>>
>> *CH*
>>
>> *N(*
>>
>> *G(*
>>
>> 1
>>
>> 5960.0250
>>
>> 6212.0650
>>
>> 2
>>
>> 6019.3250
>>
>> 6271.3650
>>
>> 3
>>
>> 6078.6250
>>
>> 6330.6650
>>
>> 4
>>
>> 6137.9250
>>
>> 6389.9650
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment.
>> If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on
>> the orthogonal polarization.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>>
>>
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel
>> than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6
>> GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna
>> rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you
>> enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is
>> subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you
>> can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mike Hammett <***@ics-il.net>
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>>
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6
>> GHz... IIRC.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
>> *To: ****@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel
>> widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist
>> in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need
>> to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that
>> does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe
>> having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>>
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz!
>> Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> 11 ghz integra
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>>
>> President
>>
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>
>> www.aeronetpr.com
>>
>> @aeronetpr
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>> *Reply-To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>> *Date: *Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
>> *To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz
>> radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>
>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the
>> most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much
>> besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking
>> about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are
>> my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Steve Utick
2015-01-20 16:30:15 UTC
Permalink
As previously stated, we are currently dealing with a ExploreAir LR link
that we've went through 5 radios to get to that mostly work now, but are
still 8db off of expected. The first two brand new radios were 20+db off
out of the box. We still have OOB Managment issues that haven't been
resolved after weeks of dealing with support as well. OOB Managment just
quits responding. I suspect it's a leak in their software between the
data port and the OOB management port, but they won't admit to that, they
just ignore me at this point.

I've heard the same story from my sales rep as well, sells a ton of Exalt,
but over the last year, the quality seems to have gone down, and he has
even been seeing more and more issues, although, none as sever as the
issues I've been having. I've put up 4 Exalt links, and have had issues
on 3 of them.


On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 8:43 PM, Steve Discher <***@ispsupplies.com>
wrote:

> Butting in here. We sell a ton of Exalt with zero comebacks. What issues
> are you having?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 19, 2015, at 11:46 AM, Steve Utick <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My problem is at this point, I've had so many problems with Exalt that I'm
> not sure I'd buy another one of their radios period....
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 19, 2015 at 11:31 AM, SmarterBroadband <
> ***@smarterbroadband.com> wrote:
>
>> You could also look at the Exalt ExtremeAir.
>>
>> 2 x 80 Mhz channels with X-Pic all in one all-outdoor unit.
>>
>> Does a Gig.
>>
>> Adam
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:48 PM
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> What is my least expensive option for getting more bandwidth in 6ghz or
>> 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler <jon-***@michwave.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields much less at
>> 256byte and larger...it's a curve.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz, you'll probably be
>> slightly better off even if the calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing'
>> during rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from the same size
>> dishes helps there. Licensing a wide single polarity is always cheapest...
>>
>>
>>
>> -Jon
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman <***@imaginenetworksllc.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets net you greater
>> throughput?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy <***@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps full duplex (if every packet
>> was a VoIP packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic real-world TCP
>> throughput that you can expect.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim <***@comsearch.com> wrote:
>>
>> It’s really 60!
>>
>>
>>
>> *60 MHz *
>>
>> *CH*
>>
>> *N(*
>>
>> *G(*
>>
>> 1
>>
>> 5960.0250
>>
>> 6212.0650
>>
>> 2
>>
>> 6019.3250
>>
>> 6271.3650
>>
>> 3
>>
>> 6078.6250
>>
>> 6330.6650
>>
>> 4
>>
>> 6137.9250
>>
>> 6389.9650
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all depends on the environment.
>> If x-pol is needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going to be available on
>> the orthogonal polarization.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Ken Hohhof
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>>
>>
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>>
>>
>>
>> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel
>> than to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6
>> GHz, mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna
>> rules to allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you
>> enough gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is
>> subject to multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you
>> can do in 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Mike Hammett <***@ics-il.net>
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>>
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6
>> GHz... IIRC.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions
>> http://www.ics-il.com
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
>> *To: ****@afmug.com
>> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel
>> widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist
>> in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need
>> to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that
>> does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe
>> having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>>
>> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>>
>> *To:* ***@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz!
>> Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> 11 ghz integra
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>>
>> President
>>
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>>
>> www.aeronetpr.com
>>
>> @aeronetpr
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From: *TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>> *Reply-To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>> *Date: *Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
>> *To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>>
>> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz
>> radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>>
>> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>
>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the
>> most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much
>> besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking
>> about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are
>> my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
Gino Villarini
2015-01-16 20:22:56 UTC
Permalink
+1

Gino A. Villarini
@gvillarini



On Jan 16, 2015, at 4:17 PM, Mike Hammett <***@ics-il.net<mailto:***@ics-il.net>> wrote:

I don't think anything is faster than Ceragon IP-20C or Cambium 820C in 4x4 using two channels.



-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com

________________________________
From: "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com<mailto:***@voltbb.com>>
To: ***@afmug.com<mailto:***@afmug.com>
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 12:54:17 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?


So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
Erich Kaiser
2015-01-16 20:46:03 UTC
Permalink
Had a link over 16 miles, have not had one issue even through heavy rains.
It has 3ft Radiowaves dishes. Apex Plus. 56Mhz channel. Don't be scared
Ken...


On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:58 PM, Ken Hohhof <***@kwisp.com> wrote:

> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30 contiguous?
>
> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC on the same 30 MHz channel than
> to find 60 MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t done anything in 6 GHz,
> mainly because of antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the antenna rules to
> allow down to a 3 ft dish, but realistically that won’t give you enough
> gain unless it’s a short link, especially given that 6 GHz is subject to
> multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t kept up with what you can do in
> 6 GHz, so I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>
> *From:* Mike Hammett <***@ics-il.net>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
> *To:* ***@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6 GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6
> GHz... IIRC.
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com>
> *To: ****@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
> I would first talk to your frequency coordinator about what FCC channel
> widths can be licensed in what bands. I’m not sure 40 MHz channels exist
> in 6 GHz, and I believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel width means you need
> to license 2 adjacent channels. There is no benefit to having a radio that
> does 80 MHz channels if that’s not what you license, other than maybe
> having consistent equipment across your network to simplify sparing.
>
>
> *From:* TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
> *To:* ***@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz!
> Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com>
> wrote:
>
>> 11 ghz integra
>>
>>
>>
>> Gino A. Villarini
>> President
>> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>> www.aeronetpr.com
>> @aeronetpr
>>
>>
>>
>> From: TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
>> Reply-To: "***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>> Date: Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
>> To: "***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>>
>>
>> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz
>> radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>>
>>> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the
>>> most economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much
>>> besides 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking
>>> about trying another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are
>>> my options that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>>>
>>
>
>
Bill Prince
2015-01-16 22:48:59 UTC
Permalink
I know you can run a combiner on Trango, Dragonwave, and Exalt for
sure. I'm certain you can run one on most of the others too, with some
restrictions. It's a nice option because it gives you some redundancy
along with doubling the throughput.


bp
<part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com>

On 1/16/2015 2:17 PM, Mike Hammett wrote:
> Can one put on a combiner and a different brand radio as to have moar
> throughput?
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: *"TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com>
> *To: ****@afmug.com
> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 4:09:46 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
> Mike;
>
> Integra not available in 6 or 11, when they are it's only 100 meg jump
> in performance from the lumina...
>
> I'll checkout trango and maybe alcoma. Sounds like the IP20c is where
> it's at but I'm assuming they are 40K?
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:01 PM, TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com
> <mailto:***@voltbb.com>> wrote:
>
> What's the HP high power? What's the cost on that bad boy?
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:00 PM, Jon Langeler
> <jon-***@michwave.net <mailto:jon-***@michwave.net>> wrote:
>
> IP20C HP. Get a new FCC license :) You'll have another
> polarity to use later or in another direction.
>
> Jon
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 16, 2015, at 4:48 PM, TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com
> <mailto:***@voltbb.com>> wrote:
>
> What is my least expensive option for getting more
> bandwidth in 6ghz or 11ghz ? Right now I have 366mbps
> (56mhz 256qam) would like double or better?
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:03 PM, Jon Langeler
> <jon-***@michwave.net
> <mailto:jon-***@michwave.net>> wrote:
>
> compression yields a lot at 64byte packet, but yields
> much less at 256byte and larger...it's a curve.
>
> Also if your upgrading a long 5GHz link with 6Ghz,
> you'll probably be slightly better off even if the
> calcs say 'low uptime'. 11GHz will 'swing' during
> rains more than 6GHz obviously so the higher gain from
> the same size dishes helps there. Licensing a wide
> single polarity is always cheapest...
>
> -Jon
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Jan 16, 2015, at 3:13 PM, Josh Luthman
> <***@imaginenetworksllc.com
> <mailto:***@imaginenetworksllc.com>> wrote:
>
> That sounds backwards. Why would smaller packets
> net you greater throughput?
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340 <tel:937-552-2340>
> Direct: 937-552-2343 <tel:937-552-2343>
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 3:10 PM, Jeremy
> <***@gmail.com
> <mailto:***@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> It's really 60. Ours does 1.4Gbps, 700Mbps
> full duplex (if every packet was a VoIP
> packet)...500Mbps FDX is a more realistic
> real-world TCP throughput that you can expect.
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 1:07 PM, Hardy, Tim
> <***@comsearch.com
> <mailto:***@comsearch.com>> wrote:
>
> It’s really 60!
>
> *60 MHz *
>
> *CH*
>
>
>
> *N(*
>
>
>
> *G(*
>
> 1
>
>
>
> 5960.0250
>
>
>
> 6212.0650
>
> 2
>
>
>
> 6019.3250
>
>
>
> 6271.3650
>
> 3
>
>
>
> 6078.6250
>
>
>
> 6330.6650
>
> 4
>
>
>
> 6137.9250
>
>
>
> 6389.9650
>
> As far as XPIC on 30 MHz vs. 60 MHz it all
> depends on the environment. If x-pol is
> needed to clear a channel, it isn’t going
> to be available on the orthogonal
> polarization.
>
> *From:*Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com
> <mailto:af-***@afmug.com>] *On Behalf
> Of *Ken Hohhof
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 2:59 PM
>
>
> *To:* ***@afmug.com <mailto:***@afmug.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best
> option for higher capacity ?
>
> In 6 GHz, is 60 really 60, or is it 30+30
> contiguous?
>
> I’m thinking it might be easier to do XPIC
> on the same 30 MHz channel than to find 60
> MHz of available spectrum, but I haven’t
> done anything in 6 GHz, mainly because of
> antenna size. Yes the FCC did relax the
> antenna rules to allow down to a 3 ft
> dish, but realistically that won’t give
> you enough gain unless it’s a short link,
> especially given that 6 GHz is subject to
> multipath fades. So bottom line I haven’t
> kept up with what you can do in 6 GHz, so
> I could easily be wrong or behind the times.
>
> *From:*Mike Hammett <mailto:***@ics-il.net>
>
> *Sent:*Friday, January 16, 2015 1:24 PM
>
> *To:****@afmug.com <mailto:***@afmug.com>
>
> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best
> option for higher capacity ?
>
> 30 MHz in the 7 GHz band, 30 MHz in some 6
> GHz, 60 MHz in the rest of 6 GHz... IIRC.
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions
> http://www.ics-il.com
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Ken Hohhof" <***@kwisp.com
> <mailto:***@kwisp.com>>
> *To: ****@afmug.com <mailto:***@afmug.com>
> *Sent: *Friday, January 16, 2015 1:18:19 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best
> option for higher capacity ?
>
> I would first talk to your frequency
> coordinator about what FCC channel widths
> can be licensed in what bands. I’m not
> sure 40 MHz channels exist in 6 GHz, and I
> believe you’ll find an 80 MHz channel
> width means you need to license 2 adjacent
> channels. There is no benefit to having a
> radio that does 80 MHz channels if that’s
> not what you license, other than maybe
> having consistent equipment across your
> network to simplify sparing.
>
> *From:*TJ Trout <mailto:***@voltbb.com>
>
> *Sent:*Friday, January 16, 2015 1:05 PM
>
> *To:****@afmug.com <mailto:***@afmug.com>
>
> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best
> option for higher capacity ?
>
> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it
> does in april it's just 60mhz! Should I
> even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems
> like 80 is the way to go?
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino
> Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com
> <mailto:***@aeronetpr.com>> wrote:
>
> 11 ghz integra
>
> Gino A. Villarini
>
> President
>
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>
> www.aeronetpr.com <http://www.aeronetpr.com>
>
> @aeronetpr
>
> *From: *TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com
> <mailto:***@voltbb.com>>
> *Reply-To: *"***@afmug.com
> <mailto:***@afmug.com>" <***@afmug.com
> <mailto:***@afmug.com>>
> *Date: *Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
> *To: *"***@afmug.com <mailto:***@afmug.com>"
> <***@afmug.com <mailto:***@afmug.com>>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best
> option for higher capacity ?
>
> I guess what I'm interested in is what is
> the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz radio in
> terms of bits/hz or should I just use the
> lumina in 2+0?
>
> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout"
> <***@voltbb.com <mailto:***@voltbb.com>> wrote:
>
> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I
> need to upgrade, what is the most
> economical option for more capacity ? Saf
> doesn't really have much besides 2+0 right
> now (maybe that's my best option?) So I
> was thinking about trying another brand
> something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What
> are my options that won't cost an arm and
> a leg ?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Josh Luthman
2015-01-17 04:11:02 UTC
Permalink
What's W and S on the Integra?

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
On Jan 16, 2015 11:08 PM, "Daniel White" <***@gmail.com> wrote:

> Both Integra radios do 1024QAM.
>
>
>
> [image: cid:***@01CE2975.BD4B6370]
>
> *Daniel White* | Managing Director
>
> *SAF North America LLC*
>
>
>
> *Cell:*
>
>
>
> (303) 746-3590
>
> *Skype:*
>
> danieldwhite
>
> *E-mail:*
>
> ***@saftehnika.com
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-***@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Luthman
> *Sent:* Friday, January 16, 2015 12:12 PM
> *To:* ***@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> It's just a factor. What other options can do 80 MHz? Can they do 1024
> QAM? I'd bet 60 MHz * 1024qam is pretty close to 80 MHz * 256qam.
>
>
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 2:05 PM, TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>
> 11ghz integra doesn't exist, and when it does in april it's just 60mhz!
> Should I even be considering a 60mhz radio? Seems like 80 is the way to go?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 11:02 AM, Gino Villarini <***@aeronetpr.com>
> wrote:
>
> 11 ghz integra
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Gino A. Villarini
>
> President
>
> Aeronet Wireless Broadband Corp.
>
> www.aeronetpr.com
>
> @aeronetpr
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From: *TJ Trout <***@voltbb.com>
> *Reply-To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
> *Date: *Friday, January 16, 2015 at 2:57 PM
> *To: *"***@afmug.com" <***@afmug.com>
> *Subject: *Re: [AFMUG] 6 or 11ghz best option for higher capacity ?
>
>
>
> I guess what I'm interested in is what is the cheapest 6 or 11ghz 80mhz
> radio in terms of bits/hz or should I just use the lumina in 2+0?
>
> On Jan 16, 2015 10:54 AM, "TJ Trout" <***@voltbb.com> wrote:
>
> So I have a lumina on 11ghz 56mhz that I need to upgrade, what is the most
> economical option for more capacity ? Saf doesn't really have much besides
> 2+0 right now (maybe that's my best option?) So I was thinking about trying
> another brand something with maybe 80mhz channels ? What are my options
> that won't cost an arm and a leg ?
>
>
>
>
>
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